Talisman: What Went Wrong?

Capcom's Adam Boyes discusses the difficulties that led to the game's cancellation.

It's not often that game companies go out of their way to talk about their failures. But when they do they offer us new insight into the way games are made and the unique problems and pitfalls that publishers and developers encounter. That's why I got in touch with Adam Boyes, Director of Production at Capcom Entertainment, to talk about the cancellation of Talisman. The game was to be the next in a fairly successful run of board games adapted for places like Xbox Live and PSN, but the game was quietly and fairly unceremoniously canned this August, only drawing attention of the gaming press months later. As a fan of board games I couldn't let Talisman go quietly into the night. I was curious about the unique circumstances that led Capcom to pull the plug, and Boyes was gracious enough to talk with me, via email, about the problems his team encountered when trying to transform a tabletop RPG epic into a swiftly moving, social online game.

Gus Mastrapa: If you can, please talk about the rights situation with Talisman. When did you acquire them? Have they, as reported, reverted back to Games Workshop?

Adam Boyes: In 2007, we were creating our development strategy for the next five years and we felt that the downloadable market on XBLA, PSN and PC was where we wanted to put a heavy development focus. During many internal conversations, Capcom team members brought up their favorite board and card games from childhood, as well as their favorite retro Capcom games. With that list, we then went on a search to find out if anything was possible to license.

When we got in touch with Games Workshop, we found a kindred spirit. This was a group of people that really understood what it meant to make great games, so we hit it off instantly. Games Workshop was very particular with which companies they place their licenses with, and Capcom is as well, so it was a good match. We discussed their goals, our goals, and set off to recreate the fond memories we had developed playing the game since it's release in '83.

When we did finally cancel the project, we did it with the blessing from Games Workshop and had a very amicable discussion. The discussion ended in Capcom and Games Workshop agreeing that the rights revert back to Games Workshop.

GM: So what was the initial or early issue that came along that made Talisman difficult to develop?

AB: Let me be very clear that everyone wanted this game to be a success - Capcom, Games Workshop, and the development team. It's still a sore spot for me that it got canceled, as I'm sure it is for thousands of fans around the world, but hopefully I can shed some light on video game development and the challenges that we faced. In the end it was a matter of finding out too late that we weren't on track to deliver what the fans wanted us to, and hopefully this will help everyone understand our thought process.

There were two goals that we were trying to accomplish when we set up to take Talisman to the video game world - recreate the Talisman board game experience, and create a compelling social experience. The fond memories I had growing up with the game were me, my brother, and my two cousins hunkered around the table as my Monk kicked the crap out of my brother's Elf as I laughed at him. We always had to set aside a good five hours for the game, but it almost always ended in the same scenario of one player being on the Crown of Command while the rest of us rush to try and get there. We almost always died during that same rush...

When you try and recreate a great gaming experience like this, there are critical things that you need to take into consideration which we didn't think fully through. When we set out to make the game, we assumed that people would want to play through a whole campaign in one sitting, so we only had the save system in the single player version. We looked at the other games on XBLA and PSN and realized that very few people were willing to sit and play a game for more than an hour. With a regular Talisman match coming in between 3-5 hours, this created an issue with how we would make the game fun and engaging for that whole time.

Talisman itself is a turn-based game, and on each turn there are quite a few decisions the player can make. As we continued to refine the concept of the game, we realized that the average gamer needed at least 60 seconds per turn to roll their dice, choose their direction, and then choose how to interact with the space they landed on. That meant that in a six player game, you would spend 80 percent of the time not doing anything.

This brings us one thing that we again failed to realize as PSN and XBLA were still in their infancy. Complex board games like Talisman live and die on the social interaction of people. Whether it's the taunting of the person sitting to your right or the planning of what the players should do next, it relies on people sitting together and talking. If you've played online games lately, you notice that not all players use their headsets. Social games like Talisman rely on that aspect, so if the people in your match aren't going to use their headsets, the social aspect of a board game gets completely drained and becomes a slog as you could be sitting there for five minutes waiting for your next turn.

All of the issues I've mentioned do have solutions. The problem was we had already been developing the game for six months, and with a limited budget you have to make hard decisions. We couldn't make the game that we wanted to make with the time and budget left, and that would both make both Talisman fans and Capcom fans really angry. It's hard for people outside the industry to understand, but it was the best thing for everyone. I'm sure the game will get made one day, and when it does we would be more then happy to share our concerns and learnings to help it get done. At this time, however, it unfortunately won't be us.

GM: Catan, Carcassonne, Ticket to Ride and Lost Cities were fairly modest board games. Was Talisman is a bit too big of a board game cram onto a TV screen?

AB: As I mentioned previously, I think Talisman is a pretty epic board game which I love to play. It has taken me anywhere from 3-5 hours to play one game, and when you're sitting with a bunch of friends there is nothing like it.

The games you mentioned above (of which I think the developers did an AWESOME job of adapting - they became the gold standard for what we were aiming for) are more bite-sized then Talisman. You can tear through a match of Carcassonne in 25 minutes, or build some railroads in Ticket to Ride and be all done with the game in just over half an hour. Those games are lighter fair, and I do think that they lend themselves greatly to the XBLA and PSN user base. If those games are light appetizers, Talisman would be a five-course meal. From the research we've done and looking at the games that succeed in the downloadable space, we found that people prefer the appetizers to hunkering down for a huge meal. I personally love the thought of an epic five hour match (as would most Talisman fans) but since we were so far along in development and were running out of money, we had to make one of those crappy decisions that everyone dreads - paint or get off the ladder. At that point it becomes an executive decision, and then the internal and external disappointment commenced.

GM: I always look at Talisman (and other games like it) as boiled down versions of pencil and paper RPGs. When it came time to start work on the game did you find that you were developing a video game that was more RPG then board game?

AB: I'd absolutely say the length of the game was feeling more like an RPG! But in all seriousness, it still felt like Talisman, it still felt very pencil and paper, and in part, that's why it didn't work as well in the downloadable space. Pencil and paper games are very long, and they command healthy social interaction. Downloadables with super-long play time don't work well on the service, and we can't guarantee the quality of social interaction to have players stomach those long play times.

GM: Where did the initial interest in developing the board game come from? Are their board game fans at Capcom or on your development team?

AB: We've got huge fans of board and card games in the office. I grew up playing tons of Axis and Allies, Risk, Heroquest, Talisman, Munchkin, Magic: The Gathering, as well as the mainstream classics like Monopoly, Life and Clue. Throughout the whole team there is a ton of passion for all of these types of games, and they hold a fond place in our gaming past.

GM: Are you throwing in the towel when it comes to adapting board games for XBLA?

AB: Absolutely not! I think both board games and card games are great opportunities to create bite-sized experiences for the average XBLA and PSN player. I review hundreds of pitches and we will never close the door to developing a board game or card game that fits our user base.

The most important part of the team here at Capcom US is all of us came from internal development, which makes us much different then other publishers. We've been on the development side, worked insane hours, and poured our heart and souls into games which helps us work closely with great developers.

GM: How much room is there to adjust or change mechanics when you're adapting a table top game? Were you able to, or tempted to streamline mechanics (like the game's dice movement) to make the game go faster?

AB: It really depends on the licensing partner. Games Workshop and Capcom had an awesome relationship - their main goal was to have us create a verbatim digital version of Talisman, but they also wanted to bring the game to a wider audience. They were allowing us to create new digital-only rules to streamline the game for quicker matches that would resonate more with a casual board game fan. The great thing about GW is they basically said, "Hey, look - we're great at making board games and pen and paper stuff, you guys are great at making video games - let's collaborate and bring your experience to Talisman."

GM: How much did Microsoft standards and approvals effect the game? Were you far enough along to start wrestling with their requirements?

AB: Sony and Microsoft requirements can be difficult to implement, but they are absolutely critical to making a game high quality. Think about how boring a game experience would be without online voice chat, trophies and achievements, and all of the other bells and whistles that the Microsoft and Sony platforms bring. I think one of the biggest mistakes that small developers make is underestimating how much work it takes to implement all of the requirements for the different platforms. You've seen people discuss this publicly with N+ and Castle Crashers - one of the benefits of working with a publisher is that we've got a ton of experience in that realm, and we share it with our developers to help alleviate the stresses. This wasn't an issue for the Talisman project, as it was canceled before we even hit the "Feature Complete" stage.

GM: Please tell us a little about your team. How many people were working on the project and for how long? Was this the only game you were developing at the time?

AB: Our Capcom U.S. Product Development team is made up of 20 people - half of them being producers. They work with tons of great external developers who are the ones making the games. The development team was about ten people for this project, and it was their only title they were working on. As a publisher, however, Capcom US had around 15 games in development simultaneously! These are all developed with outside help as we work with some of the most talented independent developers on the planet.

GM: If you've got anything else you want to share with gamers and board game fans, please do.

AB: Nobody likes hearing that a game they were looking for gets canceled. At Capcom, we take a ton of pride in being open and honest with our fans, and I think most people notice that who check out our Capcom-Unity.com. I hope I was able to articulate the difficult process of game development and the unfortunate cancellation of Talisman, and if anyone out there has additional questions they can always get in touch with us on our Capcom-Unity forums - just hit the Ask Capcom question as we all peruse that area often.

Special thanks to Chris Kramer from Capcom for making this interview possible.     

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